Difference between revisions of "Ys II"

Revision as of 15:02, 26 July 2014

This page is for both the Complete (Windows, 2001) and Chronicles+ (Steam, 2013) releases of the game. Unless otherwise noted, the info here is equally applicable to both versions. There is yet another version known as Eternal (Windows, 2000), but it's virtually the exact same as the Complete version; the key speedrunning difference being that it has a couple useful glitches not found in others. In any event, this page is meant for an any%, Easy difficulty run.

Run categories and version differences

Though any% Easy difficulty is the focus of this guide, it is important to distinguish between a run that plays the game fresh from an install, or one that has already completed the game at least once. After completing the game and watching the credits all the way through, all subsequent playthroughs have a couple cutscenes added to the story, which are unskippable (outside of a certain bug for one in certain versions). Aside from re-installing the game, there is no known way to get the game back to a "first playthrough" state, meaning such speedruns are probably not worth the trouble for most people.

In addition, the Complete version has a multi-faceted bug that abuses weird behavior caused by loading a save file during Time Attack, but that mode is only unlocked after beating the game once. This can result in some major skips during the game, but it's recently been discovered that the game's story mode can actually be completed solely through Time Attack itself (for the Complete version only), so an actual story mode run with such glitches is arbitrary at best.

With regards to version differences, the Complete and Chronicles+ versions play almost 100% similar to one another (unless playing one of the glitched categories of Complete), just that Chronicles+ has fixed some glitches involving the warp menu delay that Complete can take advantage of (detailed below, but would likely add up to ~25-30s). We're not sure, but aside from said glitches, we think Complete is likely the faster version at this point, simply because it has Japanese text and not English (though these difference would likely be minimal, given that Complete can only double-tap confirm to speed up text, whereas Chronicles+ can hold cancel to clear things even faster - the difference is Japanese has fewer characters to display in most cases).

As far as Eternal is concerned, it has a couple useful glitches specific to it (again, detailed below), but they involve getting the Time Stop magic, which is otherwise ignored and a little out of the way. Because of this, it is currently unknown whether or not said glitches save enough time to be worthwhile, but it otherwise plays exactly like the other versions (minus the existence of Time Attack).

Glitches

Walking through enemies

If you die and level up at the same time, the HP you gain will prevent you from dying, but as it should technically be game over, you are granted immunity from enemy attacks. You can't physically attack them either, except via Fire Magic - though transitioning to another screen will fix this (and your invincibility as well). Ironically, this glitch is hardest to perform on the Easy difficulty, as enemies there will not deal head-on damage as they do in other difficulties (by far the easiest way to trigger this), and so you have to let them hit you with a "wind-up" attack (when the enemy glows) the exact moment you kill them. Note that you shouldn't trigger the enemy kill with fireballs, as you'll likely not trigger the deaths simultaneously, which will likely lock Adol in his death animation. Currently, this is only useful to get the Staff of Divinity without needing to kill the rock golems, but is not recommended, as grinding is still needed.

Skip text when saving Dr. Ralle

When you go to free Dr. Ralle, the text that triggers when approaching the rubble can be skipped by running against the wall at a diagonal angle, then using the Mattock. This saves a few seconds.

Faster screen refreshing

Upon entering a new screen, if you immediately try and go back the way you came, there's a small but noticeable movement pause before Adol will turn around. However, if you press any other direction, you can move immediately. This is useful for when you need to refresh a screen while leveling (to respawn enemies faster). What I do is press up to enter a new screen, briefly press down to move immediately, and then press up again shortly afterwards. This means you can get back to grinding a bit faster than normal, which helps to save a little bit of time. It's a bit tricky to get the hang of, but if done well, it gives the illusion that the "leveling screen" is being refreshed without actually moving to another screen.

Obtaining an item while warping

Similar to Ys I, if you open a chest at the exact same time the warp menu finishes loading, you can cut off the item jingle, saving a few seconds. There is a delay where you can move around before the menu finishes loading, but you have to touch the chest at the exact moment the warp menu finishes loading (Chronicles+ halts movement as soon as the menu is called, so this can't be used in that version); touching it sooner will just cancel the menu and open the chest normally. Needless to say, this is a very precise trick. Known useful locations are when obtaining the Light Magic, the Stone Shoes (faster to warp to Lance instead of walking back the way you came), Silver Pendant, Dreaming Stone Idol, and the Black Pearl inside Solomon Shrine.

Change items immediately after using Misty Ice Drops

This glitch is not possible in Chronicles+, as all items need to be equipped manually on the subscreen (probably a remnant of the PSP version not having enough buttons to cover all hotkeys from previous versions); Eternal and Complete can just cycle through them ("R" or "T"), provided something is already equipped. Using or otherwise getting rid of a "consumable" item naturally means nothing is equipped afterwards, and therefore a trip to the subscreen is necessary to equip something else. The exception being after you use the Misty Ice Drops, provided you do so near the top/center of the area you're supposed to, and not further down. Until you transition to the next screen, the game for some reason still registers them as "equipped", meaning you can switch to another item right away, which saves a visit to the inventory subscreen.

Alter Magic shenanigans

If you switch into or out of Roo form right as you talk to a character, they will talk to you in the "wrong" form. For example, Ruba's only supposed to tell Adol-Roo about Tarf being kidnapped, but changing from Roo to Adol at the last second makes it appear as though normal Adol is the one being told the info. However, this is a very precise trick, and as the time gains are minimal, it's probably only useful for a segmented speedrun (aside from the above, the other useful time to do so would be to listen in on the meeting as normal Adol, since a warp back to Ramia Village right after is the fastest way to proceed).

Skipping Druegar

This glitch is only possible in the Eternal version. First, you need the Time Stop magic, which I think is a ~45s detour (requires the Shrine Key). Next, you need to go to one of the Options menus and turn on the option to escape boss battles, and then activate the battle normally. Leave the room and head back inside, and use Time Stop magic immediately to momentarily delay the boss fight from starting - this will give you enough time to reach the door up top (can also walk through Druegar temporarily), which will now open. This needs to be done at least twice if skipping him altogether, but for a speedrun, I'd say to kill him anyway (maybe on the way to Dalles and Darm), as he gives a fixed 1,500 EXP. Unfortunately, other bosses are not able to be skipped through such means.

Extra EXP from Zava

This glitch is not possible in the Chronicles+ version, and while it is technically doable in Complete via some convoluted means, it is not worthwhile - so, for all intents and purposes, it'd only be useful if running the Eternal version. Anyway, this glitch also requires the Time Stop magic (again, a bit of a detour due to needing the Shrine Key). As soon as Zava and her minions finish talking, use it right away. This freezes Zava in her "normal" form, which you can then proceed to damage with physical attacks (unlike her boss form, fireballs are ineffective). Killing her can net you as much as 4,000 EXP if doing her under-leveled, but like a normal enemy, the amount is reduced the more you level. As this is not the boss form you are killing (still have to kill her normally), you can do this over and over again, but as some text is there each time, it's currently unknown just how useful this truly is compared to normal grinding (should be of *some* use, especially if skipping Druegar prior).

Skipping the final screen before Darm

After the Goddesses imbue your blade with power and open the door to Darm, before walking through the door, call the warp menu, and walk through before it finishes loading (unfortunately, that means this glitch is not possible for Chronicles+, as your movement is immediately halted when calling the warp menu there). For whatever reason, the game skips the final screen with the collapsing platforms, transitioning you right to Darm. Incidentally, this means that the extra cutscene that plays here in 2nd+ playthroughs is also skipped.

Glitched Time Attack

This is a multi-faceted glitch which only seems possible in Complete. For most aspects of it, you need to load up Time Attack normally, then kill yourself as soon as possible. But before the game returns you to the title screen, hit F1 (quickload - the regular load option will be greyed out and non-functional, but this still works). Load a file, and the shenanigans really start. As the game is technically still in Time Attack mode, many triggers do not function, even going so far as to not have text boxes appear (though a character still "talks" to you, provided it is not done in a special manner). A lot of triggers will re-appear properly by activating the glitch on the screen said triggers appear, but otherwise do not work right if the glitch is triggered before said screen. So, saving and de-activating the glitch (by returning to the title screen and loading the file normally) temporarily, then re-activating it again is often needed.

As one can imagine, this messes with the game in a variety of ways (*far* too many things to list here, but the glitch thread in the "Supplemental Info" section has more details scattered throughout), but one of the more interesting things is what happens when you enter an already defeated boss room in such a state (an undefeated boss will re-activate the Time Attack boss loop, which is inescapable in most circumstances). Doing so will actually give you one of every inventory item and equipment piece in the game, presumably related to the equipment re-shuffling that normally occurs between Time Attack fights (though if doing something similar in Ys I, it only shows blank screens, and is thus not useful there - not that such screens are ever accessible to the player in ordinary Time Attack circumstances). Naturally, this messes with the game even more, causing it to think certain events are activated before you can even do so (example - doing it too early, Gorto never lets you into Solomon Shrine). If you're under-leveled, entering a boss room will also boost your level and stats based on which one you entered (example - Dalles boosts you to level 52, which is what you're automatically set to in normal Time Attack). While the stats and such are fully functional, the EXP itself is "fake", and so it is possible to "de-level" based on what your actual accumulated EXP is if you enter a boss room that has a lower level than what was used for the boost in the first place.

In a different vein, it is actually possible to complete the game's story mode through Time Attack alone. At a certain point during the Darm battle, if you attempt to return to the title screen, the game will fail to execute the command, but it will still kill the timer and music (I don't quite understand the music disappearing, but the timer obviously has no need to be around if you're going to end Time Attack), effectively putting the game in story mode. Normally, the game has no problem granting your wish, but there are very specific conditions where the game actually refuses to do so, despite selecting "OK". Of course, none of this would be an issue if the game actually returned to the title screen as normal, but it doesn't. So, since there's obviously no more story after Darm, the ending plays out as normal after defeating him. For this glitch to work, the time to attempt to return to the title screen seems to be when the red glow dissipates at the beginning of the battle (I'm not sure, but I also let Darm's HP bar fill all the way up as an extra precaution, just in case it's not merely a frame perfect trick). The menu doesn't seem to be callable at this point in Chronicles+, but that's not to say it couldn't happen elsewhere within the Darm battle.

It is currently unknown why this happens, but I can at least mention the other times I've noticed a failure to return to the title screen (for reference, these were also when I was playing Complete). Other known instances of the game refusing to return to the title screen is at the beginning of the Dalles/Darm scene entering the Ice Ridge of Noltia (if it matters, I let the warp menu fully load when transitioning, so I can attempt escape as soon as possible), when Dalles turns you into a demon (right after the second screen flash, I think?), and entering Darm's screen (again, I let the warp menu fully load during the screen transition - not sure it's necessary, but trying this as soon as possible in normal Time Attack doesn't seem to work, hence the timing after the red flash).

Velagunder

Level 12 with the Short Sword is what you want to be when facing this boss. Technically, he can be reasonably done at level 9 with the Long Sword, but grinding is needed at a few different points throughout the game, and besides, saving up for the Long Sword means passing on the Talwar right away after the Mine (not to mention, there is no way to accumulate 1,000 gold early on without killing some enemies, so getting it early means backtracking to Lance where you normally wouldn't do so yet). Even though there is a free Short Sword from the old man in the Ruins of Moondoria, it is believed to be slightly faster to simply purchase one. This is because to get the free sword, you'd probably start by getting the weapon to deal reasonable damage, backtrack to where the enemies are, then come back to where the old man is once you're strong enough to get the staff. A benefit is that this route saves 200 gold early on, but it also means you're down a level at Velagunder from not needing to grind as much for gold to purchase the Talwar later (level 11 Velagunder is also twice as slow as level 12, but this is negated due to the extra time taken to get to level 12).

Anyway, the first grinding step is to get to level 4 with the enemies in the Ruins of Moondoria, and then afterwards grind on the enemies in the first Sanctuary of Toal room until you reach level 6, at which point you can take care of the rock golems guarding the Staff of Divinity. While you can use the walk through enemies glitch to grab the staff as early as level 2, that leaves you under-leveled, and not doing good damage later on throughout the Sanctuary/Mine. You can still grind to 4 and do the glitch to walk through them, but it is a precise trick, and heavily luck-based for it to be worthwhile, and is not recommended for single segment runs (would need to do it after Astal opens the Sanctuary, otherwise you can't talk to him with the glitch active - also means hoping an enemy follows you all the way there to not waste time). In the event one uses the glitch like that, it is recommended to repeatedly kill the small plants in the very beginning of the Mine until level 8.

If not doing the glitch, then there is no need to stop and grind on the plants (since you will already be a couple levels higher to be able to kill the rock golems) - just make sure everything in your direct path is being killed. However, you will need to grind on the pink demons just outside the passage to Gemma and Messa's tombs. Do so until level 12 is reached, but also make sure you have 1,160 or more gold before proceeding to Velagunder, and you should end up right at 2,000 when finishing up the rest of the Mine.

Regarding the actual fight, he can be taken down in 3 "rounds" at level 12, but as it's a very precise strategy, 4 is more likely. Provided you do the same general movements each time, his pattern will stay the same, and so he shouldn't pose much problems. This video shows the optimal 3 round kill.

Tyalmath

Tyalmath should be faced at level 20 with the Talwar equipped. Clearing Gila's Basement will help to get the needed EXP, but to make those kills go quicker, the Talwar should be obtained before going down there. To do so, it is recommended to collect and sell the Iron Ore from the Mine (3,000 gold - can be 6,000 if waiting until entering the Ice Ridge, but that is slower and not recommended), and the remaining 2,000 gold will come from all the Velagunder grinding. In addition to enemies right in your path, the Hawk Idol should be used for some faraway kills where possible without losing time.

Shouldn't be any issue with the battle itself, though the Marle Flower in the Ice Ridge is recommended to help restore MP beforehand - especially considering it is faster to warp back to Lance after getting the Stone Shoes, which will consume some MP. Also, the hidden 1,000 gold in Tyalmath's lair is recommended to take for purchasing the Hyper Cutter later on (the 2,000 gold chest in the Moat of Burnedbless should not be necessary, and I think is slightly slower).

Gelaldy

Recommended to face at level 26 with the Talwar; 27 would be preferable, except there's no known way quick enough to get the additional EXP. Not much to say with this area, except that stopping to grind to 24 (maybe a tad less, not sure) on the lizard enemies outside the poisonous passage is the only real spot where you need to grind a little.

A couple area quirks to note. While it is possible to ring the Evil Bell and get into the Roos' Nest without the "feeling watched" cutscene, it is faster to let it play out, because the position needed to skip it (right before said cutscene trigger) doesn't let you block the Roo that comes out when you ring the bell, which is faster to do. For the poisonous passage, the Roda Leaf should be equipped *before* first entering it, otherwise a text box shows up and halts movement briefly.

For Gelaldy himself, it is recommended to have the Hawk Idol equipped. Doing so arcs your shots, and if you are positioned right (below and off to the side a fair ways), it is possible to also deal good damage as he is releasing the worm thing by hitting the edges of his mouth. Your shots do need to be really accurate, though, otherwise the damage will be greatly reduced. Speaking of the worm thing, you will want to manipulate it as far away from Gelaldy as possible, while simultaneously using fireballs to try and keep Gelaldy in one of the top corners. Doing this right will give you more time to damage him, as it'll take longer for him to re-absorb the worm. Here is a demonstration of this strategy (done in Time Attack with higher levels, but the principle is the same).

Druegar

Technically, level 35 or 36 with the Hyper Cutter is good enough for this boss (unless playing Eternal and skipping him), but since grinding for Zava is still needed, it is best to grind to level 38 beforehand to keep up with the later enemies. The Hyper Cutter should be bought as soon as you enter Ramia Village, provided no armor has been purchased (can pick some up in the Shrine, which is recommended in the current single segment route iteration) and the 1,000 gold chest from Tyalmath's lair was obtained prior. Anyway, the best way to grind to 38 is to use the flame-spewing lizards in the Subterranean Canal portion where the Silver Pendant is found, preferably the two right near the entrance (unless playing Eternal, in which case any grinding could probably be best done abusing the extra EXP from Zava glitch). Yes, there's a Zavanite elsewhere in the Shrine that gives more EXP, but it's out of the way, plus it is immune to fireballs, which are best used in conjunction with physical attacks in most cases.

Druegar himself is pretty easy, but whether or not to use the Hawk Idol is debatable. Without it, you can fire straight up without worrying about his antennae absorbing the shot, but you'll need to lure him back up top a little ways anyway, in which case firing a curved shot with the Idol is probably best, provided you have good aim. You can fire right in his face with the Idol to ensure the shot hits for maximum damage, but this is really only feasible at the beginning, as later on you'll probably be busy luring him up top, as well as taking out the eggs so there's less projectiles to deal with.

Zava

If you're playing Eternal, you can take advantage of the extra EXP from Zava glitch, but you still have to actually kill off her boss form at some point. This is doable at level 44 with the Battle Sword, but 45 is recommended as it makes the battle faster, which is especially important with the amount of projectiles you need to dodge. To get to level 45, it is recommended to do the Druegar plan of grinding to 38 on the flame-spewing lizards, and then use the enemies outside the Bell Tower for the remainder of the EXP (should pick up the Goddesses' Palace warp while you're at it, though it's not needed until after Zava).

For Zava herself, since there's so many projectiles to dodge, you'll probably want the Battle Shield and Armor to make the battle more survivable (if not here, then probably for Dalles). You'll also want the Falcon Idol for crowd control with Zava's minions. In a pinch, you'll also want an Herb equipped, though you should try to save those for Dalles instead (best ones to pick up are in the Mine near the small body of water, in the Ice Ridge cave next to the Stone Shoes, and behind a rock on the screen right after Tyalmath). Anyway, you'll want to try and keep the bats in a corner, bunched together if possible - the Falcon Idol should be most effective that way. Once you can attack Zava herself, just try to avoid the bat in that phase, and go straight for Zava.

Dalles

Level 47 should suffice for this boss, provided you did Zava at 45, and killed as much other enemies along the way (the Falcon Idol being especially useful here with it's multiple homing small fireballs). It is recommended to have the Battle Shield and Battle Armor equipped for this fight; the Cleria Armor requires an otherwise unnecessary trip back to Ramia, followed by a cutscene, so it's not worth the trouble. You'll also want to have collected Herbs earlier in the game to save for this battle, as you'll likely take a good chunk of damage (as mentioned above, the best Herbs to get are in the Mine near the small body of water, in the Ice Ridge cave next to the Stone Shoes, and behind a rock on the screen right after Tyalmath). Ideally, you should try and get your hits in right away, but seeing how risky that is due to all the projectiles, you should back off and wait for a path to appear if you're sustaining too much damage. He can be hit as much as 3 times each appearance (as much as 4 when the battle starts, if you're really lucky), but that depends whether or not you can keep up your angle of attack without needing to make much re-adjustment.

Darm

Level 50 should be enough here, which should come naturally by defeating Dalles at level 47. The Shield Magic is recommended, and maybe a Cruberry as a small MP backup (on the fence in Ramia Village - fastest one being right outside Hadat's house) if it runs out too quickly. The Goddesses' Ring should of course also be used so you can stun him and land your hits quicker, though you'll want to be sure to not accidentally push him beyond the platform when attacking him before that point, otherwise he may not be reachable (especially true for the 2nd phase, where he frequently tries to retreat to the center area). If he gets stunned at the right spot, it is possible to get "stuck" on him temporarily, allowing your hits to land much faster than normal, but it is not known how to manipulate him to such a position. Not much else to say other than to avoid his attacks as best as possible to make the Shield Magic last as long as you can.

Supplemental Info

SDA planning thread

Current fastest known run (single segment with saves of Complete version, "first playthrough" settings)

Segmented run in progress (Complete version, "first playthrough" settings)

A threaddetailing lots of glitches throughout the various Ys games (though some games aren't covered very well) . Many are minor and unfortunately presumed useless, but the info may serve as a foundation for stuff yet to be found.