Difference between revisions of "Secret of Mana"

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(→‎Bosses)
(→‎General Bosstactics)
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#Next overcharge will be ready after the Analysis/Slow Down finishes
 
#Next overcharge will be ready after the Analysis/Slow Down finishes
 
#Repeat
 
#Repeat
 +
 +
The advantage of this rotation is, that it's extremely simple and easy to execute during bossfights. Further it allows your casting character to be immune to damage for the most part and thus be used as a solid shield.
 +
 +
===================
 +
 +
'''Optimal overcharge levels'''
 +
*If the boss dies in one shot, overcharge level only matters to the extent, that you need to hit with it
 +
*If you are using spell lockdown, the Overcharge attack needs to be long enough to reasonably hit the boss immediately after the spell ends
 +
*If the boss takes multiple hits and does not require spell lockdown, using normal slashes is optimal
 +
*If you need to avoid boss attacks, knowing the overcharge invincibility is key
 +
 +
===================
 +
 +
'''Always keep priority characters the furthest away from bosses'''
 +
*Most enemies, including bosses, will use their spells against the nearest target
 +
*This means, you almost always want to have either the Sprite or the Girl in front of the Boy, so he will not get targeted
 +
*Don't forget, that you want to switch out weapons for an overcharge -> At the beginning in bossfights the character with the switch-out weapon (usually sword) is also a priority character
 +
*Note: It's says "furthest", not "far away". It's enough for the Boy to be 'just' behind the other character(s)
  
 
====Specific Bosses====
 
====Specific Bosses====

Revision as of 06:16, 30 May 2013

Notes

  • Game can be done much faster with two or more characters. If you have all three characters controlled, there is much less time lost to players getting stuck.
  • Learn to alternate running/moving between characters to optimize speed/not get stuck.
  • 2-player glitches can be done by 1 person if they have two controllers. It can be a little tougher though.
  • Some bosses may be faster to spam magic on than to weapon charge glitch on.

Glitches

Currently used glitches & tricks in any% with 2 Controller

  • Money Glitch
  • Weapon Overcharge
  • (Equipment Trashing) - Some do, some don't, it's very minor
  • Midge Mallet damage canceling
  • Rope Pole Noclip
  • NPC Weapon Charge Movement to skip the trials entrance Barrier
  • Invisibility Glitch to skip most of the Grand Palace
  • Event override to skip the Pure Lands (=Mana Fortress Barrier Skip)

Weapon Overcharge

Requirements

  • Weapon Level 2
  • Different Weapon on Level 1 (Controlled Overcharge only)
  • Requires 2 controllers (Controlled Overcharge only)

Example: AI Overcharge

The easy way to do a ton of damage. Well, at least against most bosses it's easy.

  1. Equip the weapon with level 2 on the AI controlled character
  2. Set AI controlled Character in the "ACT"-Menu to weapon charge (right column) level 1, wait until the AI has charged up the weapon
  3. Set AI controlled Character in the "ACT"-Menu to weapon charge level 2, the weapon is now instantly charged up to level 2
  4. Set AI controlled Character in the "ACT"-Menu to weapon charge level 1, the weapon is now overcharging (gaining 1 weapon charge level per Frame)
  5. To unleash the attack, you can now either take control over the character switching lead ([Select]) or using the "Target"-Option in the character Menu of the AI 
*Technically you could skip step 2 and directly apply step 3 and wait for charge level 2 instead, but it's generally faster to include step 2

Example: Controlled Overcharge

  1. Equip the weapon with level 1 on your character and the weapon with level 2 on a different character
  2. On 1st controller, Charge up your weapon to level 1
  3. With the 2nd controller, swap the weapon with level 1 with the weapon level 2, the charge is now instantly charged up to level 2
  4. With the 2nd controller, swap the weapons back, the weapon is now overcharging (gaining 1 weapon charge level per Frame)
  5. You can now either simply release the charge, or actually unleash AND keep it (!)
    1. To unleash and keep the charge, you enter the menu on the 2nd controller
    2. Release the B-Button on the 1st controller
    3. Leave the menu with the 2nd controller
    4. Before the menu completely disappears, hold the B-Button again on the 1st controller
    5. Now you will overcharge to the same level again as long as you hold the B-Button
      1. Note: You can now also release the B-Button again. The next time you charge an attack it will go back to the previous overcharge level
      2. If you did it correctly, your character will walk slowly immediately as if he was charging up an attack 
*Technically you could skip step 2 and directly apply step 3 and wait for charge level 2 instead, but it's generally faster to include step 2
**It's necessary to know a few key points in the overcharge meter and which attacks those will produce to gain optimal results in battle

Money Glitch

Secret of Mana is no exception to the general idea of SNES RPGs having a way to create infinite amounts of money.

Example on how to use it:

  1. You have 3 items* in your inventory in the following order* [Magic Rope] [Candy] [Herb]
  2. Go into your regular inventory and place the Cursor on the 3rd item - the [Herb]
  3. Go into the selling-menu and sell the 3rd item [Herb]
  4. Sell the 2nd item [Candy]
  5. Leave the selling-menu and re-enter it
  6. Now your cursor is on an [Empty] item slot which you can sell
  7. After the first time selling, your item slot will now contain the [Blat]
  8. After a total (including the first one) of selling the item 8 times, your item slot will be [Empty] again
  9. in a regular run, you want to sell a total of 24 times 
* You can technically also do it with only 2 sell-able items
** The order in which you receive the items is extremely important

Extended explanation: If you have 3 items in your inventory, it might look like this:

  • Slot 1 [Magic Rope]
  • Slot 2 [Candy]
  • Slot 3 [Herb] <--- Selected

If you place your cursor onto the 3rd slot in your regular inventory, the game will remember to set it back to the 3rd slot when you re-open the inventory, because it remembers having placed the cursor exactly (!) on the 3rd slot. Also you need to know - the selling-menu is NOT the same menu as your regular inventory. It is newly created every time you select "Sell" in a shop. If we now sell all our items in the 3rd slot [Herb], the following will happen:

  • Slot 1 [Magic Rope]
  • Slot 2 [Candy] <--- Selected
  • Slot 3 [Empty]

Your 3rd slot is now [Empty], and the game will place the cursor of your regular inventory on the next item slot (=2) - regardless on where it places it in the selling-menu. Now here's the trick: The game still remembers that your cursor in your regular inventory was exactly (!) on the 3rd slot. If you now sell all your items in the 2nd slot [Candy], the following will happen:

  • Slot 1 [Magic Rope]
  • Slot 2 [Empty] <--- Selected (!)
  • Slot 3 [Empty]

Your 2nd slot is now [Empty], but the game does NOT place your cursor of your regular inventory on the next item, because it only remembers it being on the 3rd slot. But remember - you are still in the selling-menu, which is NOT the same as your regular inventory. The selling-menu is newly created every time you select "Sell" in a shop. So you now leave the selling-menu and enter it again. Your cursor will be placed on the 2nd slot, which is [Empty]. Selling the [Empty] will result in the item changing into a [Blat] and gives you a ton of money.

  • Note 1: Leaving the sell-menu and instead of entering it again, opening your regular Inventory will place your cursor in the 2nd [Empty] item and say "Trash" in your description bar on top. Leaving the item menu will fix the item slots.
  • Note 2: To get rid of the [Blat] item you have to sell all of them. In Secret of Mana, you can technically hold a total of 8 items of a kind in one slot, so you will have to sell the [Blat] item a multiple of 8 times to get rid of it.
  • Note 3: Do NEVER USE the "Trash" or "Blat" item - at least not on a regular console. I {Yagamoth} managed to corrupt my ROMs and Emulator by trying it out at certain points. I don't know whether it can actually destroy your Cartridge/Console, but I advise not to try it.

Extra Item Slots Glitch (or Many Walnuts Glitch)

This is an extension of the Money Glitch. It allows for multiples of items to be in other slots (for examples, four item slots for four walnuts each, 16 walnuts total).

Example on how to use it:

  1. Execute the Money Glitch until you get the [Blat], do not sell all of the Blat-items
  2. Leave the selling menu and enter the buy-menu and purchase the desired item
  3. Sell the rest of the [Blat]
  4. Now before you buy anything else, buy the desired item again, and it will fill into a different slot

Extended explanation:

From executing the Money Glitch to step [insert here Step number X], your inventory currently looks like this:

  • Slot 1 [Magic Rope]
  • Slot 2 [Blat]
  • Slot 3 [Empty]
  • Slot 4 [Empty]

When buying a new item, the game will always look for the first [Empty] slot and put it in there. If it finds the same item of it's kind, it will attempt to stack it. If we bought a Cup of Wishes, the inventory now looks like this:

  • Slot 1 [Magic Rope]
  • Slot 2 [Blat]
  • Slot 3 [Cup of Wishes]
  • Slot 4 [Empty]

If we now sell the [Blat], the inventory will look like this:

  • Slot 1 [Magic Rope]
  • Slot 2 [Empty]
  • Slot 3 [Cup of Wishes]
  • Slot 4 [Empty]

As mentioned, the game will always look for the first [Empty] slot to fill in a new item. Buying Cup of Wishes now will result in this:

  • Slot 1 [Magic Rope]
  • Slot 2 [Cup of Wishes]
  • Slot 3 [Cup of Wishes]
  • Slot 4 [Empty]

Because the game always fills the item in the first new slot it finds, it does not notice that there already are [Cup of Wishes] in the inventory.

Please note: Doing this only works with the [Blat], because it is not being "outsold" in a regular manner. If you sell the last piece of any other item, the game will re-arrange your inventory and thus close any gap. For an extended explanation, please read the TAS notes over at http://tasvideos.org/3311S.html

Midge Mallet damage canceling

Midge Mallet can be obtained any time after defeating Jabberwocky in the Water Palace. Useful for quick casting spells as well as nullifying damage/effects done by enemy spells.

Soft-Reset Savewarp

Does not work on PAL Version. With this glitch you can load a specific save into any room you are currently in.

Requirements

  • Flammie Drum

Example on how to use it:

  1. Fly to the Frost Forest and land near the palace at the place where Neko is located
  2. IMPORTANT: You HAVE to land directly at Nekos place, the glitch will not work if you enter the screen via normal entrance (Hence why Flammie Drum is a requirement)
  3. Talk to Neko and save into any slot
  4. Go to a map you wish to savewarp into
  5. Soft Reset - Hold L + R + Start + Select for ~5 Seconds
  6. Load the file you saved in step #3

Attention:

  • Savewarping into the Mana Fortress past the initial entrance is problematic. The game expects you to activate all the buttons and defeat the two bosses in the Mana Fortress. If these requirements are not met, the cutscene with Thanatos will not play properly, and the Dark Lich will not appear. Also, savewarping into the Mana Beast fight will result in a pixelated mess.

Extended explanation: When saving, the game will save the "Entrance" coordinates as starting location when reloading the savefile. If you land anywhere with Flammie, those "Entrance" coordinates will be not set (NULL). Thus, if you land directly at a location where you can save, the created savefile will not have any information set on where to reload your starting location. The only known location where this is possible is the Frost Forest Neko. If you try to load such a savefile normally, the game will simply crash. When Soft-Resetting the game will keep the current RAM Information and not remove it - including the "Entrance" coordinates. When you reload a Frost Forest Neko savefile after soft-resetting, the "Entrance" coordinates from before the Soft-Reset will be used as your starting location.

Invisibility Glitch

This is an extension to the Soft-Reset Savewarp.

Rope-pole Glitch (or Skipping map event glitch)

NOTE: REQUIRES 2 OR MORE PLAYERS

Hitting a rope pole with a weapon while calling Flammie causes the game to skip the first event that will happen at the landing maps. For example, if you have Player 1 begin striking at a rope pole with his weapon and Player 2 calls Flammie, you can skip going to the Pure Land and go straight to the Mana Fortress. This bypasses the barrier.

Rope Pole Noclip

NOTE: REQUIRES 2 OR MORE PLAYERS

If player 1 is attacking a rope pole while computer-controlled character is casting a spell, player 2 can walk through barriers, walls, pits, etc. This is especially useful in the Grand Palace and the Mana Fortress.

Trials Barrier Skip

There is a fairly simple way to skip the trials (Stalagmite-)barrier on the top of the Lofty Mountains, where Joch resides. But... ATTENTION: Unless you also execute the Major Grand Palace Skip, you won't be able to progress, since this skips getting 3 of the Spirits and temples.

Requirements

  • 2 Controllers

Example on how to use it:

  1. Position one controller to the right of Joch, facing left, ready to talk to him
  2. Position your other controller nearby, charging up a weapon to something, that will move a good distance while releasing (For example, Fist level 1, Spear level 3, Spear level 7, Spear level 8, etc.)
  3. On the controller in front of Joch, enter the menu
  4. Release the charge button on the other controller
  5. Leave the menu and instantly talk to Joch
  6. You should now be past the Barrier

Currently useless Glitches & useless information

"Useless" might not be the correct description of this section. It's more accurate to say that these informations are "useless for a current speedrun". Potentially this information will be useful in case we discover more tricks or application for glitches.

Maps Wrap around

  • In Secret of Mana, every Map warps around. This means in short - if you could walk without barriers long enough into any direction (up/down/left/right) eventually you will wrap around the map and come out on the other side (Hint: set 7ecf01 to "1" via Cheatcodes to get Noclip to test). This has currently no application in the speedrun. At least not anymore - earlier this was used in conjunction with the invisibility glitch to skip the barrier into Jochs trials where you fight the Dopplegangers.
  • As a sidenote to this, some maps behave a little different. While your characters still wrap around, on those maps it seems that your screen "loses" track of your characters and simply stays in place. During this time you can walk around "off screen". This has currently no application, but could potentially be used to reach higher values with the Equipment Trashing Glitch. Currently known maps where this happens: Some parts of the Ruins,The Mushroom City Entrance & before the Castle, the cutscene where the Boy gets caught by the Goblins in the beginning when you talk to the Guards.

Experience Glitch

Find an enemy that can case Wall on itself (Palace of Darkness is a Grand Place to do this, before completing it). Unequip all items on the partner you want dead (usually the girl). Cast a high level spell with Sprite on the waller. Hope that it reflects onto the intended party member. Depending on dead member's total experience, other members will get a good chunk of experience points. Experience points gained is as follows:

[Total Experience of Dead Member] % 65536

If you're not sure what Modulo (%) is, it's basically the remainder of a division problem (i.e. 10 modulo 3 is 1, since 10 divided by 3 is 3 REMAINDER 1). The most experience you can gain from killing a party member is 65535.

General Tips & Trick

General stuff

Weapon Slashing Hitbox
Your Meelee Weapon Slashing Hitbox is twice as large in boss encounters compared to normal. Projectile weapons remain the same

Invincibility while casting
Your characters, but also the enemies and bosses are immune to being damaged while they are casting. Avoid slashing bosses while they are casting, or choose an charge attack that will hit them after they finish casting.

Invincibility while executing certain charge attacks
Certain charge attacks make your character invincible to being hit. You can exploit this by for example starting a Spear attack level 6 (the whirlwind) when Spiky Tiger or the Vampire/Buffy are going to smash down onto you.

Hitting Bosses
Bosses often have either defense-stances or defense-hitboxes. For example, when the Minorous is crossing his arms in front of his head, he is in defensive stance. Same with Vampire/Buffy while they are flying. Spring Beak has a defense-hitbox in his beak, where he is always invincible. Avoid at all costs slashing these defense-hitboxes. Hitting them will render the entirety of your (charge) attack useless - hitting nothing, even if they would open up to attacks while your attack is still in progress.

Bosses attack the nearest target
Most of the time. With the exception of character-specific-locked-on-spells bosses will always target the nearest character with their spells. Therefore, always position the Sprite and/or Girl in front of the Boy.

Optimal Overcharge attacks
Wherever possible, you want to have an overcharged "standard" attack to defeat bosses, since they are almost ready to use again after the Boss' "got-hit"-animation is over.

Locking down bosses with spells
In a number of tricky boss-battles you will want to lock down bosses with spells and hit them with an overcharged attack as soon as the spell finished casting. A good combination is the following:
#Release an overcharged attack (such as Spear Level 6, 7, 8 to get a good leeway)
#Immediately after cast Analysis (Sylph) with the Girl (Might also work with Slow Down as the Sprite)
#The timing works out, so you can unleash the next overcharge attack right after the Analysis spell ends
#Immediately after unleashing this attack cast Analysis, etc.

Character Hitboxes
The Sprites hitbox is larger than the Boys or the Girls..

Undine Heal for "dead" characters
As long as your characters have some HP left when you START casting the healing spell with the girl, the character will be able to stand up again, even after being on 0 HP. This does not work with Candy, Chocolate or Honey

Bosses

General Bosstactics

Simple spell lockdown overcharge rotation

  1. Get overcharge
  2. Unleash overcharge
  3. Immediately after unleashing, cast Analysis/Slow Down
  4. Next overcharge will be ready after the Analysis/Slow Down finishes
  5. Repeat

The advantage of this rotation is, that it's extremely simple and easy to execute during bossfights. Further it allows your casting character to be immune to damage for the most part and thus be used as a solid shield.

=======

Optimal overcharge levels

  • If the boss dies in one shot, overcharge level only matters to the extent, that you need to hit with it
  • If you are using spell lockdown, the Overcharge attack needs to be long enough to reasonably hit the boss immediately after the spell ends
  • If the boss takes multiple hits and does not require spell lockdown, using normal slashes is optimal
  • If you need to avoid boss attacks, knowing the overcharge invincibility is key
=======

Always keep priority characters the furthest away from bosses

  • Most enemies, including bosses, will use their spells against the nearest target
  • This means, you almost always want to have either the Sprite or the Girl in front of the Boy, so he will not get targeted
  • Don't forget, that you want to switch out weapons for an overcharge -> At the beginning in bossfights the character with the switch-out weapon (usually sword) is also a priority character
  • Note: It's says "furthest", not "far away". It's enough for the Boy to be 'just' behind the other character(s)

Specific Bosses

Fire Gigas

  • Start charging up immediately
  • Do a normal hit with a secondary character
  • Immediately after cast Frost on him
  • After frost finishes, your overcharge should be ready to finish him
============

Jabberwocky

  • His hitbox extends far towards the bottom, it's easy and safe to slash him from a long distance.
============

Spring Beak

  • His Beak is a defense hitbox - avoid hitting it at all costs
  • Remember, your slashes are twice as big in boss fights
  • Your best bet is to attack him from behind or above to guarantee a hit.
============

Mech Rider (all of them)

  • New tactic: Stay on the very bottom of the arena with the character the Mech Rider targets. The Mech Rider always tries to get onto the same vertical level as the character he targets - but gets blocked by the bottom-border before he reaches it. With this, the Mech Rider will never dash to either side.
============

Great Viper

  • In any case - you will want to use the whirlwind charge attack here, since it grants the longest invincibility period of all attacks and almost guarantees a hit
  • Use a spell lockdown for a follow up attack
============

Meta Mantis

  • He will always shoot one fire laser at the beginning aiming for the Boy on the right. Walk out of its way.
  • Practice
============

Hexas

  • Baseline tactic: Have the Girl/Sprite directly in touch with Hexas and consistently cast Analysis/Slow Down to avoid taking damage or getting controlled.
  • This position can be achieved by either casting any spell with the Girl/Sprite and then running up to her with the not-casting-character while she is under control
  • Or simply use a Barrel to get up to her safely
  • Safe rotation:
    • Unleash Charge-attack
    • immediately after cast with the character in touch with Hexas
    • charge up again
    • repeat (I do not know whether this is optimal, but you have a ton of leeway as long as the character in touch with Hexas has enough mana.)
============

Agregagopilon (Watermelon)

  • Always position both the Sprite and the Girl in front of the Boy to absorb the spells
  • Use an overcharged normal slash to do optimal damage and not get out of position
  • Always try to stay directly below his middle part, else he may start jumping
============

Vampire / Buffy

  • As soon as the Boss descends, you want to start locking him down with spells into overcharged attacks (optimally whirlwind)
  • Using Wall on Buffy (The 2nd Vampire) can be very useful
  • Positioning your characters in a corner is a good idea, then you can mostly predict which character will be targetted by his spells
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