Ys II - Revision history

Korzic at 02:24, 24 April 2016

2016-04-24T02:24:47Z

Korzic at 01:56, 24 April 2016

2016-04-24T01:56:52Z

Korzic at 01:55, 24 April 2016

2016-04-24T01:55:26Z

Korzic at 01:21, 24 April 2016

2016-04-24T01:21:44Z

Show changes

Hachrt at 00:49, 24 April 2016

2016-04-24T00:49:22Z

Korzic: /* Supplemental Info */

2014-08-23T18:34:41Z

‎Supplemental Info

Korzic: /* Supplemental Info */

2014-08-23T18:33:42Z

‎Supplemental Info

Korzic at 02:44, 31 July 2014

2014-07-31T02:44:22Z

Korzic: /* Velagunder */

2014-07-31T02:41:34Z

‎Velagunder

Korzic at 21:27, 26 July 2014

2014-07-26T21:27:23Z

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 ==Glitches==
 ===Walking through enemies===
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 ===Obtaining an item while warping===
-Similar to Ys I, if you open a chest at the exact same time the warp menu finishes loading, you can cut off the item jingle, saving a few seconds.  There is a delay where you can move around before the menu finishes loading, but you have to touch the chest at the exact moment the warp menu finishes loading (Chronicles+ halts movement as soon as the menu is called, so this can't be used in that version); touching it sooner will just cancel the menu and open the chest normally.  Needless to say, this is a very precise trick.  Known useful locations are when obtaining the Light Magic, the Stone Shoes (faster to warp to Lance instead of walking back the way you came), Silver Pendant, Dreaming Stone Idol, and the Black Pearl inside Solomon Shrine.
+Similar to Ys I, if you open a chest at the exact same time the warp menu finishes loading, you can cut off the item jingle, saving a few seconds.  There is a delay where you can move around before the menu finishes loading, but you have to touch the chest at the exact moment the warp menu finishes loading (Chronicles / + halts movement as soon as the menu is called, so this can't be used in those versions); touching it sooner will just cancel the menu and open the chest normally.  Needless to say, this is a very precise trick.  Known useful locations are when obtaining the Light Magic, the Stone Shoes (faster to warp to Lance instead of walking back the way you came), Silver Pendant, Dreaming Stone Idol, and the Black Pearl inside Solomon Shrine.
 ===Change items immediately after using Misty Ice Drops===
-This glitch is not possible in Chronicles+, as all items need to be equipped manually on the subscreen (probably a remnant of the PSP version not having enough buttons to cover all hotkeys from previous versions); Eternal and Complete can just cycle through them ("R" or "T"), provided something is already equipped.  Using or otherwise getting rid of a "consumable" item naturally means nothing is equipped afterwards, and therefore a trip to the subscreen is necessary to equip something else.  The exception being after you use the Misty Ice Drops, provided you do so near the top/center of the area you're supposed to, and not further down.  Until you transition to the next screen, the game for some reason still registers them as "equipped", meaning you can switch to another item right away, which saves a visit to the inventory subscreen.
+This glitch is not possible in Chronicles / +, as all items need to be equipped manually on the subscreen (probably a remnant of the PSP version not having enough buttons to cover all hotkeys from previous versions); Eternal and Complete can just cycle through them ("R" or "T"), provided something is already equipped, however, this particular bug appears to only work in the Complete version.  Anyway, using or otherwise getting rid of a "consumable" item naturally means nothing is equipped afterwards, and therefore a trip to the subscreen is necessary to equip something else.  The exception being after you use the Misty Ice Drops, provided you do so near the top/center of the area you're supposed to, and not further down.  Until you transition to the next screen, the game for some reason still registers them as "equipped", meaning you can switch to another item right away, which saves a visit to the inventory subscreen.
 ===Alter Magic shenanigans===
 ====I'll only tell Roo my secrets====
-If you switch into or out of Roo form right as you talk to a character, they will talk to you in the "wrong" form.  For example, Ruba's only supposed to tell Adol-Roo about Tarf being kidnapped, but changing from Roo to Adol at the last second makes it appear as though normal Adol is the one being told the info.  However, this is a very precise trick, and as the time gains are minimal, it's probably only useful for a segmented speedrun (aside from the above, the other useful time to do so would be to listen in on the meeting as normal Adol, since a warp back to Ramia Village right after is the fastest way to proceed).
+If you switch into or out of Roo form right as you talk to a character, they will talk to you in the "wrong" form.  For example, Ruba's only supposed to tell Adol-Roo about Tarf being kidnapped, but changing from Roo to Adol at the last second makes it appear as though normal Adol is the one being told the info.  However, this is a very precise trick, and as the time gains are minimal, it's probably only useful for a segmented speedrun.  Aside from the above, the other useful time to do so would be to listen in on the meeting as normal Adol, since a warp back to Ramia Village right after is the fastest way to proceed.
 ====Solomon Shrine entry scene skip====
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 ===Extra EXP from Zava===
-This glitch is not possible in the Chronicles+ version, and while it is technically doable in Complete via some convoluted means, it is not worthwhile - so, for all intents and purposes, it'd only be useful if running the Eternal version.  Anyway, this glitch also requires the Time Stop magic (again, a bit of a detour due to needing the Shrine Key).  As soon as Zava and her minions finish talking, use it right away.  This freezes Zava in her "normal" form, which you can then proceed to damage with physical attacks (unlike her boss form, fireballs are ineffective).  Killing her can net you as much as 4,000 EXP if doing her under-leveled, but like a normal enemy, the amount is reduced the more you level.  As this is not the boss form you are killing (still have to kill her normally), you can do this over and over again, but as some text is there each time, it's currently unknown just how useful this truly is compared to normal grinding (should be of *some* use, especially if skipping Druegar prior).
+This glitch is not possible in the Chronicles / + versions, and while it is technically doable in Complete via some convoluted means, it is not worthwhile - so, for all intents and purposes, it'd only be useful if running the Eternal version.  Anyway, this glitch also requires the Time Stop magic (again, a bit of a detour due to needing the Shrine Key).  As soon as Zava and her minions finish talking, use it right away.  This freezes Zava in her "normal" form, which you can then proceed to damage with physical attacks (unlike her boss form, fireballs are ineffective).  Killing her can net you as much as 4,000 EXP if doing her under-leveled, but like a normal enemy, the amount is reduced the more you level.  As this is not the boss form you are killing (still have to kill her normally), you can do this over and over again, but as some text is there each time, it's currently unknown just how useful this truly is compared to normal grinding (should be of *some* use, especially if skipping Druegar prior).
 ===Skipping the final screen before Darm===
-After the Goddesses imbue your blade with power and open the door to Darm, before walking through the door, call the warp menu, and walk through before it finishes loading (unfortunately, that means this glitch is not possible for Chronicles+, as your movement is immediately halted when calling the warp menu there).  For whatever reason, the game skips the final screen with the collapsing platforms, transitioning you right to Darm.  Incidentally, this means that the extra cutscene that plays here in 2nd+ playthroughs is also skipped.
+After the Goddesses imbue your blade with power and open the door to Darm, before walking through the door, call the warp menu, and walk through before it finishes loading.  Unfortunately, that means this glitch is not possible for Chronicles / +, as your movement is immediately halted when calling the warp menu there.  For whatever reason, the game skips the final screen with the collapsing platforms, transitioning you right to Darm.  Incidentally, this means that the extra cutscene that plays here in 2nd+ playthroughs is also skipped.
 ===Glitched Time Attack===
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 ==Druegar==
-Technically, level 35 or 36 with the Hyper Cutter is good enough for this boss (unless playing Eternal and skipping him), but since grinding for Zava is still needed, it is best to grind to level 38 beforehand to keep up with the later enemies.  The Hyper Cutter should be bought as soon as you enter Ramia Village, provided no armor has been purchased (can pick some up in the Shrine, which is recommended in the current single segment route iteration) and the 1,000 gold chest from Tyalmath's lair was obtained prior.  Anyway, the best way to grind to 38 is to use the flame-spewing lizards in the Subterranean Canal portion where the Silver Pendant is found, preferably the two right near the entrance (unless playing Eternal, in which case any grinding could probably be best done abusing the extra EXP from Zava glitch).  Yes, there's a Zavanite elsewhere in the Shrine that gives more EXP, but it's out of the way, plus it is immune to fireballs, which are best used in conjunction with physical attacks in most cases.
+Technically, level 35 or 36 with the Hyper Cutter is good enough for this boss (unless playing Eternal and skipping him), but since grinding for Zava is still needed, it is best to grind to level 38 beforehand to keep up with the later enemies.  The Hyper Cutter should be bought as soon as you enter Ramia Village, provided no armor has been purchased (can pick some up in the Shrine, which is recommended in the current single segment route iteration) and the 1,000 gold chest from Tyalmath's lair was obtained prior.  Anyway, the best way to grind to 38 is to use the flame-spewing lizards in the Subterranean Canal portion where the Silver Pendant is found, preferably the two right near the entrance (unless playing Eternal, in which case any grinding could probably be best done abusing the extra EXP from Zava glitch).  Yes, there's a Zavanite elsewhere in the Shrine that gives more EXP, but it's out of the way, plus it's immune to fireballs, which are best used in conjunction with physical attacks in most cases.
 Druegar himself is pretty easy, but whether or not to use the Hawk Idol is debatable.  Without it, you can fire straight up without worrying about his antennae absorbing the shot, but you'll need to lure him back up top a little ways anyway, in which case firing a curved shot with the Idol is probably best, provided you have good aim.  You can fire right in his face with the Idol to ensure the shot hits for maximum damage, but this is really only feasible at the beginning, as later on you'll probably be busy luring him up top, as well as taking out the eggs so there's less projectiles to deal with.
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 ==Dalles==
-Level 47 should suffice for this boss, provided you did Zava at 45, and killed as much other enemies along the way (the Falcon Idol being especially useful here with it's multiple homing small fireballs).  It is recommended to have the Battle Shield and Battle Armor equipped for this fight; the Cleria Armor requires an otherwise unnecessary trip back to Ramia, followed by a cutscene, so it's not worth the trouble.  You'll also want to have collected Herbs earlier in the game to save for this battle, as you'll likely take a good chunk of damage (as mentioned above, the best Herbs to get are in the Mine near the small body of water, in the Ice Ridge cave next to the Stone Shoes, and behind a rock on the screen right after Tyalmath).  Ideally, you should try and get your hits in right away, but seeing how risky that is due to all the projectiles, you should back off and wait for a path to appear if you're sustaining too much damage.  He can be hit as much as 3 times each appearance (as much as 4 when the battle starts, if you're really lucky), but that depends whether or not you can keep up your angle of attack without needing to make much re-adjustment.
+Level 47 should suffice for this boss, provided you did Zava at 45, and killed as much other enemies along the way (the Falcon Idol being especially useful here with it's multiple homing small fireballs).  It is recommended to have the Battle Shield and Battle Armor equipped for this fight; the Cleria Armor requires an otherwise unnecessary cutscene, so it's not worth the trouble, even though you'll likely come back to Ramia briefly to get to the Shrine's warp statue quickly.  You'll also want to have collected Herbs earlier in the game to save for this battle, as you'll likely take a good chunk of damage (as mentioned above, the best Herbs to get are in the Mine near the small body of water, in the Ice Ridge cave next to the Stone Shoes, and behind a rock on the screen right after Tyalmath).  Ideally, you should try and get your hits in right away, but seeing how risky that is due to all the projectiles, you should back off and wait for a path to appear if you're sustaining too much damage.  He can be hit as much as 3 times each appearance (as much as 4 when the battle starts, if you're really lucky), but that depends whether or not you can keep up your angle of attack without needing to make much re-adjustment.
 ==Darm==
-Level 50 should be enough here, which should come naturally by defeating Dalles at level 47.  The Shield Magic is recommended, and maybe a Cruberry as a small MP backup (on the fence in Ramia Village - fastest one being right outside Hadat's house) if it runs out too quickly.  The Goddesses' Ring should of course also be used so you can stun him and land your hits quicker, though you'll want to be sure to not accidentally push him beyond the platform when attacking him before that point, otherwise he may not be reachable (especially true for the 2nd phase, where he frequently tries to retreat to the center area).  If he gets stunned at the right spot, it is possible to get "stuck" on him temporarily, allowing your hits to land much faster than normal, but it is not known how to manipulate him to such a position.  Not much else to say other than to avoid his attacks as best as possible to make the Shield Magic last as long as you can.
+Level 50 should be enough here, which should come naturally by defeating Dalles at level 47.  The Shield Magic is recommended, and maybe a Cruberry as a small MP backup (on the fence in Ramia Village - fastest one being right outside Hadat's house) if it runs out too quickly.  Personally, I don't get the Cleria Shield from Luta since I already use the Shield magic, but the Goddesses' Ring should definitely be used so you can stun him and land your hits quicker.  However, you'll want to be sure to not accidentally push him beyond the platform when attacking him before the Goddesses' Ring takes effect, otherwise he may not be reachable (especially true for the 2nd phase, where he frequently tries to retreat to the center area).  If he gets stunned at the right spot, it is possible to get "stuck" on him temporarily, allowing your hits to land much faster than normal; I'm not certain, but I think part of this involves him moving to the exact same spot you are, but I don't know whether or not it's possible to predict where he'll move.  Not much else to say other than to avoid his attacks as best as possible so the Shield Magic lasts longer.

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 ===Chronicles+, 2013 (PC, English only)===
-As with Ys I, this version along with the English version of PSP Chronicles, is believed to likely be the slowest, but we're not sure.
+As with Ys I, this version, along with the English version of PSP Chronicles, is believed to likely be the slowest, but we're not sure.
 Just like Ys I, both it and the English PSP release are exactly the same as their Japanese counterparts, but the text being in English slows them down.  However, Ys II has longer dialogues on the whole when compared with Ys I, so speeding up the text by holding cancel may be on par or slightly faster when compared with Eternal and Complete, who can only clear the text faster by double-tapping.

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 ==Version Differences==
-These versions are all extremely similar to one another, there are some small differences to take into account when comparing runs of one another.  It is currently unknown which version is fastest.
+These versions are all extremely similar to one another, but there are some small differences to take into account when comparing runs of one another.  It is currently unknown which version is fastest.
 ===Eternal, 2000 (PC, Japanese only)===
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 It is able to cycle through accessories, magic, and even inventory items without accessing a subscreen every time.  However, in the case of accessories and items, something needs to be manually equipped first before this function will work.  In the case of magic, just press the corresponding number (1-6) to immediately pick the one you want.  Accessories and items can cycle forward or backwards, but otherwise don't have select keys for each one.
-This version contains a bug with the Time Stop magic that makes it possible to skip Druegar altogether, and can also be used to kill Zava's humanoid version for a significant amount of EXP.  However, it is unknown whether or not the detour to get Time Stop magic is worth it to exploit these glitches in a speedrun.
+This version contains a bug with the Time Stop magic that makes it possible to skip Druegar altogether, and can also be used to kill Zava's humanoid form for a significant amount of EXP.  However, it is unknown whether or not the detour to get Time Stop magic is worth it to exploit these glitches in a speedrun.
-When obtaining certain items, it is possible to skip the item jingle by having the warp menu fully loaded at the exact same frame as you open a chest or otherwise obtain most items.  Naturally, this is only useful for a select few items, and it's much more difficult to perform than in Ys I, but it saves ~4s each time.
+When obtaining certain items, it is possible to skip the item jingle by having the warp menu fully loaded at the exact same frame as you open a chest, or otherwise obtain most items.  Naturally, this is only useful for a select few items, and it's much more difficult to perform than in Ys I, but it saves ~4s each time.
-It is able to skip the final screen before Darm (with the collapsing platforms) by calling the warp menu as you enter the doorway on the screen with the Goddesses.  It is not known why this happens.
+You are able to skip the final screen before Darm (with the collapsing platforms) by calling the warp menu as you enter the doorway on the screen with the Goddesses.  It is not known why this happens.
 Time Attack doesn't exist in this version, so neither do the various bugs related to it.
 ===Complete, 2001 (PC, Japanese with unofficial English patch)===
-Extremely similar to the Eternal version, but is unknown which of the two is faster.
+Extremely similar to the Eternal version, but it's unknown which of the two is faster.
 Clearing text is exactly the same as in Eternal.
@@ Line 38: / Line 38: @@
 Just like Eternal, warping while collecting items is possible, as well as being able to skip the final screen before Darm.
-Time Attack is introduced in this version, and so too are some bugs related to it.  More info can be found below, but essentially, abusing such bugs falls under a different speedrunning category.
+Time Attack is introduced in this version, and so too are some bugs related to it.  More info can be found below, but abusing such bugs falls under a different speedrunning category.
 ===Chronicles, 2009 (PC, Japanese only) and Chronicles, 2011 (PSP, Japanese and English)===
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 In addition to double-tapping confirm to speed up text, you can hold cancel to make it go by even faster. With the text being in Japanese, it goes by even faster than it does in Complete.
-Similar to Eternal and Complete, both accessories and magic can be cycled through on the go.  However, the other items have no such shortcuts, and must be equipped manually each time to use them (probably due to button restrictions on the PSP).  In addition, the shortcuts cycle through each one in order going forward, whereas Eternal and Complete can move through them backwards or forward (accessories / items), or select the magic they wish right away.
+Similar to Eternal and Complete, both accessories and magic can be cycled through on the go.  However, the other items have no such shortcuts, and must be equipped manually each time to use them (probably due to button restrictions on the PSP - Japanese PC Chronicles / + are basically ports of that, after all).  In addition, the shortcuts cycle through each item in order, from left to right, whereas Eternal and Complete can move through them backwards or forward, or simply select the magic they wish right away.
-The bugs with Time Stop magic also don't exist here.  Neither does the warp menu trick when collecting items, as the game halts movement immediately, whereas Eternal and Complete still have freedom to move until it fully loads.
+The bugs with Time Stop magic also don't exist in these versions.  Neither does the warp menu trick when collecting items, as the game halts movement immediately, whereas Eternal and Complete still have freedom to move until it fully loads.
 Due to the altered warp menu behavior, the final screen before Darm can't be skipped for these versions, giving Eternal and Complete an edge, but this may be counter-balanced by these versions being able to speed through text faster via holding cancel.
-Finally, while Time Attack is present in this version, the bugs pertaining to it don't seem to be.  This is because the activation method involves using the quickload function, which doesn't exist in these versions (unsure if that's the case for PC Chronicles).
+Finally, while Time Attack is present in these versions, the bugs pertaining to it don't seem to be.  This is partially because the activation method involves using the quickload function, which doesn't exist in these versions (unsure if that's the case for PC Chronicles).  It is also unknown whether or not the return to title screen failure occurs with the PC version of Chronicles, but it doesn't appear to happen in the PSP versions, at least.
 ===Chronicles+, 2013 (PC, English only)===

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 [[Category:Games]]
-This page is for both the Complete (Windows, 2001) and Chronicles+ (Steam, 2013) releases of the game.  Unless otherwise noted, the info here is equally applicable to both versions.  There is yet another version known as Eternal (Windows, 2000), but it's virtually the exact same as the Complete version; the key speedrunning difference being that it has a couple useful glitches not found in others.  In any event, this page is meant for an any%, Easy difficulty run.
+This page is for both the Complete (Windows, 2001) and Chronicles+ (Steam, 2013) releases of the game.  Unless otherwise noted, the info here is equally applicable to both versions.  There is yet another version known as Eternal (Windows, 2000), but it's virtually the exact same as the Complete version; the key speedrunning difference being that it has a couple useful glitches not found in others.  This page details strategy for an any%, Easy difficulty run — other difficulties may vary mildly.
@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 ===Walking through enemies===
-If you die and level up at the same time, the HP you gain will prevent you from dying, but as it should technically be game over, you are granted immunity from enemy attacks.  You can't physically attack them either, except via Fire Magic - though transitioning to another screen will fix this (and your invincibility as well).  Ironically, this glitch is hardest to perform on the Easy difficulty, as enemies there will not deal head-on damage as they do in other difficulties (by far the easiest way to trigger this), and so you have to let them hit you with a "wind-up" attack (when the enemy glows) the exact moment you kill them.  Note that you shouldn't trigger the enemy kill with fireballs, as you'll likely not trigger the deaths simultaneously, which will likely lock Adol in his death animation.  Currently, this is only useful to get the Staff of Divinity without needing to kill the rock golems, but is not recommended, as grinding is still needed.
+If you die and level up at the same time, the HP you gain will prevent you from dying, but as it should technically be game over, you are granted immunity from enemy attacks.  You can't physically attack enemies either, except via Fire Magic — though transitioning to another screen will fix this (and your invincibility as well).  Ironically, this glitch is hardest to perform on the Easy difficulty, as enemies there will not deal head-on damage as they do in other difficulties (by far the easiest way to trigger this), and so you have to let them hit you with a "wind-up" attack (when the enemy glows) the exact moment you kill them.  Note that you shouldn't trigger the enemy kill with fireballs, as you'll likely not trigger the deaths simultaneously, which will likely lock Adol in his death animation.  Currently, this is only useful to get the Staff of Divinity without needing to kill the rock golems, but is not recommended, as grinding is still needed.
 ===Skip text when saving Dr. Ralle===
@@ Line 24: / Line 24: @@
 ===Faster screen refreshing===
-Upon entering a new screen, if you immediately try and go back the way you came, there's a small but noticeable movement pause before Adol will turn around.  However, if you press any other direction, you can move immediately.  This is useful for when you need to refresh a screen while leveling (to respawn enemies faster).  What I do is press up to enter a new screen, briefly press down to move immediately, and then press up again shortly afterwards.  This means you can get back to grinding a bit faster than normal, which helps to save a little bit of time.  It's a bit tricky to get the hang of, but if done well, it gives the illusion that the "leveling screen" is being refreshed without actually moving to another screen.
+Upon entering a new screen, if you immediately try and go back the way you came, there's a small but noticeable movement pause before Adol will turn around.  However, if you press any other direction, you can move immediately.  What I do is press up to enter a new screen, briefly press down to move immediately, and then press up again shortly afterwards.  This means you can refresh an area for grinding faster than normal, which helps to save a little bit of time.  It's a bit tricky to get the hang of, but if done well, it gives the illusion that the "leveling screen" is being refreshed without actually moving to another screen.
 ===Obtaining an item while warping===
@@ Line 33: / Line 33: @@
 ===Alter Magic shenanigans===
 If you switch into or out of Roo form right as you talk to a character, they will talk to you in the "wrong" form.  For example, Ruba's only supposed to tell Adol-Roo about Tarf being kidnapped, but changing from Roo to Adol at the last second makes it appear as though normal Adol is the one being told the info.  However, this is a very precise trick, and as the time gains are minimal, it's probably only useful for a segmented speedrun (aside from the above, the other useful time to do so would be to listen in on the meeting as normal Adol, since a warp back to Ramia Village right after is the fastest way to proceed).
-====Solomon Shrine entry scene skip====
+'''Solomon Shrine entry scene skip'''<br />
 Not quite the same as above, but still follows the same principle.  First, you'll need to start off as normal Adol.  Run towards the trigger point, and as soon as you're in the area where the scene is supposed to activate, transform into a Roo.  If you did it right, the cutscene won't activate, and the guards shouldn't move towards you either (they will only do so if they spot you close enough in human form - in that case, the screen will need to be refreshed to try again).  After that, either touch the door or talk to the guards manually to gain entry into the Shrine.  The downside to this is that the skip needs to be done every time you enter the Shrine this way (faster to warp to Ramia at a couple of points in the Shrine), as the scene will attempt to re-activate each time.  It's a fairly precise skip, but not nearly as difficult as the other Alter Magic tricks.

@@ Line 106: / Line 106: @@
 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATNeM5TnVRM Current fastest known run of Complete] (single segment with saves of Complete version, "first playthrough" settings - lacks a bit of polish)
-[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo2phr3SQcc Current fastest known run of Chronicles+] (single segment, "new game +" settings - currently faster than the Complete run above, but still pretty sure this version is slower overall)
+[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo2phr3SQcc Current fastest known run of Chronicles+] (single segment, "new game +" settings - currently faster than the Complete run above, but still pretty sure this version is slower overall)
 [http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn69HXNGTL6NiEojZ3PjSjlnJ2lJTPQEM Segmented run in progress] (Complete version, "first playthrough" settings)
 A [http://seldane.proboards.com/thread/6478/glitches-interesting-finds thread]detailing lots of glitches throughout the various Ys games (though some games aren't covered very well) .  Many are minor and unfortunately presumed useless, but the info may serve as a foundation for stuff yet to be found.

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:44, 31 July 2014
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	Regarding the actual fight, he can be taken down in 3 "rounds" at level 12, but as it's a very precise strategy, 4 is more likely. Provided you do the same general movements each time, his pattern will stay the same, and so he shouldn't pose much problems. This [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0DlIWU6VLo video] shows the optimal 3 round kill.		Regarding the actual fight, he can be taken down in 3 "rounds" at level 12, but as it's a very precise strategy, 4 is more likely. Provided you do the same general movements each time, his pattern will stay the same, and so he shouldn't pose much problems. This [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0DlIWU6VLo video] shows the optimal 3 round kill.
		+

	==Tyalmath==		==Tyalmath==

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 Level 12 with the Short Sword is what you want to be when facing this boss.  Technically, he can be reasonably done at level 9 with the Long Sword, but grinding is needed at a few different points throughout the game, and besides, saving up for the Long Sword means passing on the Talwar right away after the Mine (not to mention, there is no way to accumulate 1,000 gold early on without killing some enemies, so getting it early means backtracking to Lance where you normally wouldn't do so yet).  Even though there is a free Short Sword from the old man in the Ruins of Moondoria, it is believed to be slightly faster to simply purchase one.  This is because to get the free sword, you'd probably start by getting the weapon to deal reasonable damage, backtrack to where the enemies are, then come back to where the old man is once you're strong enough to get the staff.  A benefit is that this route saves 200 gold early on, but it also means you're down a level at Velagunder from not needing to grind as much for gold to purchase the Talwar later (level 11 Velagunder is also twice as slow as level 12, but this is negated due to the extra time taken to get to level 12).
-Anyway, the first grinding step is to get to level 4 with the enemies in the Ruins of Moondoria, and then afterwards grind on the enemies in the first Sanctuary of Toal room until you reach level 6, at which point you can take care of the rock golems guarding the Staff of Divinity.  While you can use the walk through enemies glitch to grab the staff as early as level 2, that leaves you under-leveled, and not doing good damage later on throughout the Sanctuary/Mine.  You can still grind to 4 and do the glitch to walk through them, but it is a precise trick, and heavily luck-based for it to be worthwhile, and is not recommended for single segment runs (would need to do it after Astal opens the Sanctuary, otherwise you can't talk to him with the glitch active - also means hoping an enemy follows you all the way there to not waste time).  In the event one uses the glitch like that, it is recommended to repeatedly kill the small plants in the very beginning of the Mine until level 8.
+Anyway, the first grinding step is to get to level 4 with the enemies in the Ruins of Moondoria, and then afterwards grind on the enemies in the first Sanctuary of Toal room until you reach level 6, at which point you can take care of the rock golems guarding the Staff of Divinity.  While you can use the walk through enemies glitch to grab the staff as early as level 2, that leaves you under-leveled, and not doing good damage later on throughout the Sanctuary/Mine.  You can still grind to 4 and do the glitch to walk through them, but it is a precise trick, and heavily luck-based for it to be worthwhile, and is not recommended for single segment runs (would need to do it after Astal opens the Sanctuary, otherwise you can't talk to him with the glitch active - also means hoping an enemy follows you all the way there to not waste time).  In the event one uses the glitch like that, it is recommended to be level 6 when leaving the Sanctuary section with Tovah's tomb (repeatedly kill the first enemy in said area to make up any missing EXP), and then repeatedly kill the small plants in the very beginning of the Mine until level 8, then continue on as normal.
 If not doing the glitch, then there is no need to stop and grind on the plants (since you will already be a couple levels higher to be able to kill the rock golems) - just make sure everything in your direct path is being killed.  However, you will need to grind on the pink demons just outside the passage to Gemma and Messa's tombs.  Do so until level 12 is reached, but also make sure you have 1,160 or more gold before proceeding to Velagunder, and you should end up right at 2,000 when finishing up the rest of the Mine.
 Regarding the actual fight, he can be taken down in 3 "rounds" at level 12, but as it's a very precise strategy, 4 is more likely.  Provided you do the same general movements each time, his pattern will stay the same, and so he shouldn't pose much problems.  This [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0DlIWU6VLo video] shows the optimal 3 round kill.
 ==Tyalmath==

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	It is currently unknown why this happens, but I can at least mention the other times I've noticed a failure to return to the title screen (for reference, these were also when I was playing Complete). Other known instances of the game refusing to return to the title screen is at the beginning of the Dalles/Darm scene entering the Ice Ridge of Noltia (if it matters, I let the warp menu fully load when transitioning, so I can attempt escape as soon as possible), when Dalles turns you into a demon (right after the second screen flash, I think?), and entering Darm's screen (again, I let the warp menu fully load during the screen transition - not sure it's necessary, but trying this as soon as possible in normal Time Attack doesn't seem to work, hence the timing after the red flash).		It is currently unknown why this happens, but I can at least mention the other times I've noticed a failure to return to the title screen (for reference, these were also when I was playing Complete). Other known instances of the game refusing to return to the title screen is at the beginning of the Dalles/Darm scene entering the Ice Ridge of Noltia (if it matters, I let the warp menu fully load when transitioning, so I can attempt escape as soon as possible), when Dalles turns you into a demon (right after the second screen flash, I think?), and entering Darm's screen (again, I let the warp menu fully load during the screen transition - not sure it's necessary, but trying this as soon as possible in normal Time Attack doesn't seem to work, hence the timing after the red flash).
		+

	==Velagunder==		==Velagunder==